How Deion Sanders is changing the future of college football at Jackson State. Account Executive - Globl Jam. 2023 Toronto Sun, a division of Postmedia Network Inc. All rights reserved. This is an imperfect comparison since the CEBL operates on a per-game basis rather than a monthly basis (average salary is about $700/game per Sportsnet). Aris Hines: No, that couldn't be true. A welcome email is on its way. There are a few cases like Freddy Garcia, who was getting paid $50,000 USD per month. Souley Doumbia: Um, it's one dude called Aris Hines. And it's certainly off of their labor. Correspondent Jon Wertheim watches as Tacko Fall shows off his height. Jon Wertheim: What would you tell the 16-year-olds in Africa today about differentiating between the good guys and the bad guys? If after reading up to this point you still want into this league, you must fork over the money up front. Blessing Ejiofor: I was young. But in the cases we investigated, nobody appears to have been looking out for the well-being of the kids brought here for their athletic skills. national support the league has received. These salaries are typically reserved for hoopers with lower player-profiles coming from small colleges etc. Shane Larkin of Anadolu Efes is the second . Jon Wertheim: So she filled out paperwork so that students from Africa could come to this school? Or write about sports? Youd just have to get your United States working VISA. 2023 Community Basketball League. Cardinals sweep Miners in CVBL championship Aug 10, 2021 Aug 10, 2021; 1 of 3 . I went online. The Orlando school helped Tacko correct his I-20 visa, and he went on to play at the University of Central Florida, before making it to the NBA. Due to the outbreak of COVID-19 in South. Tacko Fall told us he wants to play a leadership role in cleaning up the same sports pipeline he traveled. And they're able to solve this. Professional Basketball Players Survey Data Please send resume or simply apply. Based on our player survey that looked at over 100 professional leagues worldwide: Excluding the NBA (and NBA G-League), this ranks TBL 3rd in overseas basketball salaries when looking at the North American professional basketball market, behind: The Canadian Elite Basketball League (CEBL), The National Basketball League of Canada (NBLC). For players with superstar status, he will be offered a higher salary. Located in the United States, The Basketball Leagues (TBL) monthly salary range is between US$500 - US$7,000 although the most commonly reported salaries fell between $1,300USD - $1,800USD (50%). (See notes below). Feel free to do the math, but it's pretty simple. Boys Traveling Team - Stars Baseball Organization, This website is powered by SportsEngine's. By clicking Agree, I consent to our data usage policies as stated. 35 TBL Pro Teams means lots of basketball wages to be earned, TBLs average monthly basketball salary range is $1300 - $1800USD, MAX TBL salary is approximately $7,000USD, In terms of overall basketball salaries in the world, TBLs average salary range is pretty competitive - especially for beginner leagues, Rookie overseas basketball players - and thus salaries - are prioritized. He gets $2 million a year, the highest salary in the league. Read more about cookies here. It is also safe to assume players like (Chen Chieh-Hsien) and (Su Chih-Chieh) will likely to receive a $140,000 to $160,000 contract after this season. Teams of all levels high school, college, pro; men's and women's filled with players from Africa. Blessing Ejiofor: Um, yeah. Representatives from each organization come together to set rules and guidance for the upcoming season. Who are the players in TBL? @pumahoops. The CPBL foreign players' salaries are not transparent at the moment. His first stop was Texas, where recruiters promised him a scholarship. Expanded out to an entire months work that would be $2,800 - $4,900 CAD/per month ($2,212 - $3,871 USD/per month). ARE YOU GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY IN THE CEBL? Job Type: Part-time. EuroLeague teams offer a typical salary of $65,000 to $100,000 to non-star players. Blessing Ejiofor: (SIGH) I mean, I couldn't have argued with them. From compensation planning to variable pay to pay equity analysis, we surveyed 4,900+ organizations on how they manage compensation. I was gonna have good basketball training and everything. Professional Basketball Players Survey Data ($6,250 USD). The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Helping basketball players achieve their pro dreams. Essentially three types of CEBL players would receive this: Here are a few examples of suspected MAX players in the CEBL: Warriors, Heat, Grizzlies, Hornets, Rockets. Because the league permits 6 import players per club - whereas the CEBL only allows 3 - there should be more opportunities for Non-Canadians (Americans) in this competition. NBA starting lineups will be posted here as they're made available each day, including updates, late scratches and breaking news. In 2021, due to the global situation, TBLs season is expected to run from April - June with the playoffs in July (3 months total). As an American-born player, rapper J.Cole famously occupied one of three import spots for the Scarborough Shooting Stars in the 2021 - 2022 CEBL season. This website uses cookies to personalize your content (including ads), and allows us to analyze our traffic. The best case scenario for overseas basketball players? That agrees with the player survey data we collected as $1,300USD - $1,800USD was our most commonly reported salary range with 50% of hoopers saying they earned within this range. Having said that, this is heavily dependent on two of the Monkeys high profile players in this off-season. Players have personally told me that some clubs will cover housing and food for out-of-town players with per diem (food/travel money) provided for road games. For the 2018 CPBL season, across a total of 223 players, the average salary is at $61,200 USD. The CPBL foreign players salaries are not transparent at the moment. Salaries. 24-year-old outfielder (Wang Po-Jung) with $200,000 USD, and 29-year-old infielder (Chen Chun-Hsiu) at $208,000. That falls to ICE. I was 16. League News. Please try again. The NAVC offers four advanced certifications to elevate . A former top-10 NBA Draft pick could be helpful to a contender down the stretch after agreeing to a buyout. You are now a member of one of the premiere basketball blogs on the internet providing players across the world with next-level tips, strategies and the necessary information for them to achieve and succeed in overseas basketball.Rest assured you have made a great commitment in yourself! We also spoke to police sources in North Carolina. : $12.50 Per Hour Unfortunately, this job posting is expired. When excluding the NBA and NBA G-League, TBL ranks as the third highest-paying pro league in North America in terms of MAX salary and AVERAGE monthly salary for overseas basketball players. While the CEBL will be the first professional league in North American to offer this option, individuals such as Carolina Panthers offensive tackle Russell Okung have already negotiated deals with. Looking for staff that can help out at a tryout event saturday Feb 18 8:30am-12pm. Jon Wertheim: Looked like a nice place to go to school. Operations professional with international experience leading multiple large scale projects. Tacko Fall: Yeah. Jon Wertheim: How damaging is this to the kids involved? Just check out the FAQ on their official website. BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE TBL SEASON PER YEAR THEN THE AVERAGE TBL PRO PLAYER CAN EXPECT TO MAKE APPROXIMATELY $5,425USD PLAYING IN TBL PER YEAR. The NBLC in Canada has carved out a pretty decent niche in overseas basketball despite not being a FIBA-sanctioned league. The reason being, it takes time for those under 23 youngsters to develop and fully takeover the primary position in the first team. : Josecolorado.com, Players can generally expect to make $2,700 - $3,500 CAD ($2,100 - $ 2,700 USD). Easy Apply. Consider 7'6" Tacko Fall of Senegal, who, as a kid, didn't know much about basketball or the country where he was headed. Cvbl. Or alternatively, the Uni-Lions might lock them to a multi-year contract around $180,000 to $200,000 per year. He went from one of the brightest young stars in the NBA, to barely playable in a few seasons. Jon Wertheim: What were you told about the Evelyn Mack Academy? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The CVBL has been functioning as a league in the greater Eau Claire area for past 7 seasons. : Josecolorado.com, Some families say he also lied to them about his credentials and where their kids were attending school. 2020 Josecolorado.com. Tacko Fall: Absolutely. However, this is heavily dependent on what will happen to (Peng Cheng-Min) and (Lin Chih-Sheng) after 2018. Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden and LeBron James are among a handful of players who will earn more than $40 million this season. Jamie Sevier 63 Guard signed with CB Coura in Portugal. The Fubon Guardians lead the 30 to 35 age bracket with an average salary of $102,800. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Cuyahoga Valley Baseball Association . So-- yeah, I did. We use the exchange rate of $30 NTD to $1 USD. Most were recruited to come as teenagers. 2019 forecast: Will most likely to maintain the same level. Jon Wertheim: So you're-- you're playing for a charter school on a cancelled visa. Jon Wertheim: So these are middlemen who say, "I-- I've gotta get that player to the U.S. How'm I gonna do it?" Need a photographer Feb 18 for 3-4 hours to take photos of the players at this basketball camp. More. Julie Oliver/Postmedia, tap here to see other videos from our team, Unlimited online access to articles from across Canada with one account and fewer ads, Get exclusive access to the National Post ePaper, an electronic replica of the print edition that you can share, download and comment on, Enjoy insights and behind-the-scenes analysis from our award-winning journalists, Support local journalists and the next generation of journalists, Daily puzzles including the New York Times Crossword, Access articles from across Canada with one account, Share your thoughts and join the conversation in the comments, Get email updates from your favourite authors. The work is part time and should take you no longer than 2-3 hours to clean. Maybe Lin will be aiming for a salary package around $400,000 to $480,000? That couldn't, that couldn't be true. Scott Rosner, sports management professor at Columbia University, told us about an entire culture of middlemen taking advantage of unsuspecting young athletes from Africa. 8 hour shift. Meanwhile TBL is already at 30+ teams, meaning competition is sure to be watered down at that point. ($1,250 USD), $12,000 CAD/mth Try another search query or, New research shows how to set pay for remote employees. Turns out it was a borrowed image of MIT's iconic domed library. For lower-profile overseas basketball players, the CEBL minimum salary is $500.00 CAD/per game ($395USD). A 15-year-old crossed an ocean only to be intercepted at JFK by a coach she had never met and told she was not going to North Carolina but rather to Patterson, New Jersey. Get in touch with us now. Scale is based out of 100. Important Dates 2022-2023 Season. Assuming youve got another income stream going for you outside of basketball - as Ive always recommended - this isnt a bad pay day. That is, unless its just a quick pit stop or you are settling back home in the States and looking for some side cash while continuing to play. Jon Wertheim: The men that brokered your coming here, did they do right by you? The Uni-Lions takes the lead in the under 23 age bracket with an average salary of $34,400. I actually believe the TBL has one of the more compelling combines in North America at the moment if you are looking to get started in overseas basketball. But Souley says when he arrived, the education was inferior and the classes were irregular; he says the school began asking him to pay tuition and when he complained, he was threatened to have his passport taken away. So - in theory - the NBLC would have the edge in consistency and a longer, steadier pay cheque, right? Cape Verde linktr.ee/officialcvbl Joined November 2020. Crown Valley Branch Library (Laguna Niguel, CA) CVBL. But an hour before the appointed time, he cancelled. It will be interesting to see if the league can rebound to its traditional form. Drake pulled up to watch J. Cole work @JColeNC @Drake @CEBLeague @sss_cebl pic.twitter.com/CgHhLMkI5t. There is also (Lin Yi-Chuan) who will be up for a contract renewal at the end of 2018. So I didn't want to go do anything with him anymore. THERE IS NO MAX SALARY LIMIT IN THE TBL, ONLY AS MUCH AS A TEAM IS WILLING TO PAY FOR A PLAYER.SO APPARENTLY, THAT NUMBER HAS BEEN SET AT $7,000USD SO FAR. From looking at the 2017 data, those seven released players worth about $890,000 a year in total value. you know they have some SERIOUS CASH FLOW. Talk to Sales. Now it's your time. It was the leagues first season in multiple years after a multi-year hiatus following the global crisis. Also consider CEBL teams generally cover: That means youre taking everything home. 36-year-old Brothers slugger (Lin Chih-Sheng) is currently the highest paid CPBL player in the league with $480,000 USD. Before you decide whether variable pay is right for your org, get a deeper understanding of the variable pay options and the cultural impact of pay choices. At the time of its launch there were three key financial numbers for players to consider: $150,000CAD ($118,500USD) salary cap/per team. The salary cap is computed using this formula: BRI (Basketball-Related Income)x 44.74%- player benefits/ 30 teams. And Evelyn Mack was the answer? Since 2014, teams are more willing to sign high school players and spend time to develop them in the farm team. $500 - $1,500CAD/per game By continuing to use our site, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. And just leaving them once I got here was really, really tough. There will usually be 10-15 players practicing each week with everyone battling for a roster spot come game time. Basketball Referee. Standing 6'11", Souley came to the U.S. At age 16, filled with hope. You may be sent back home. 2022-23 Salary Cap: $123,655,000 ( Salary Cap History) Largest Guarantee: Jayson Tatum ($97,800,180) Color Key: Player Option, Team Option. We want to remind our parents and coaches to have their players wash their hands before and after any practices and games, as well as in their everyday lives. With the TBL not being FIBA-sanctioned, it cannot participate in the Basketball Champions League of the Americas - an event meant for the best clubs in the continent (serious exposure + money). They help to offset the costs of training with the team, including: When I was negotiating with a club in the CEBL - as long as I was still on the practice unit, I would receive $100.00 CAD/per game ($80USD) for each match that had passed. Also do 3-4 reels. And if things don't work out, then it's-- they-- they are pretty much screwed. And then you go to another in Georgia. Partnership Marketing Manager. A team can use a minimum of 90% of the salary cap. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Players can earn some nice side cash through their TBL contract while still working their regular job. Scott Rosner: Oh, it's terrible for the kids involved. According to reports, the CEBL average basketball salary is listed at roughly $700CAD/per game ($553USD). It is also worth mentioning, looking at the top four CPBL players from this 24 to 29 age bracket, two of them are the Monkeys players. ($553.00 USD), $500.00 CAD/gm So far this season he's averaging 6.9 points, 6.3 rebounds and 6.1 assists in 26.3 minutes per game . ($1,190 USD), $8,000 CAD per team/gm Staggering snowfall in California mountains leaves residents trapped for days, SpaceX launches new crew on flight to space station, Garland testifies before Senate panel amid ongoing special counsel probes, Colon cancer rates rising in younger age group, study finds, Firefighter dies battling blaze in downtown Buffalo, mayor says, Several hospitalized after Lufthansa flight diverted to Dulles due to turbulence, Explosive found in checked luggage at Pennsylvania airport, feds say, Prosecution wraps its case at Alex Murdaugh murder trial, Top McCarthy aide, House Oversight chair each met with Ashli Babbitt's mother. Transform pay with our enterprise-grade comp platform, Automate compensation with our full-suite solution, Payscale's employer-reported salary data network, The world`s largest employee-submitted pay database, Annual survey salary data from HR industry publishers, The crowdsourced compensation data API for developers, 100% company submitted data from 2,000+ businesses, Schedule a personalized demo to feel the power of Payscale, Find salary information for similar job titles and locations, Comp Planning Business Case Pitch Deck By clicking Download Pitch Deck, you. First published on March 29, 2020 / 7:00 PM. Fast games. I just got the I-20 and they were, like, "That's where you're goin'. Kenny Smith: We do not. 2019 forecast: Will most likely to see the salary to go up in a steady pace, as the Monkeys are known for locking up their primary players to multi-year contracts. which canadian pro basketball league is better. Bear in mind the average NBA salary, it's now almost $8 million. Jon Wertheim: We were going to ask you about Evelyn Mack Academy. Need 2 ref for saturday Feb 18 8:30 to 12noon for 3-4 games running clock. Stephen Curry was the highest-paid player of the 2020 through 2021 season, with a salary of $43,006,362. Assistant U.S. Attorney Kenny Smith prosecuted a case against Mack in 2018 for conspiracy to harbor aliens. Source [2021]. Who brought you here? We apologize, but this video has failed to load. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Thank you and congrats! document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); You have entered an incorrect email address! You are now a member of one of the premiere basketball blogs on the internet providing players across the world with next-level tips, strategies and the necessary information for them to achieve and succeed in overseas basketball.Rest assured you have made a great commitment in yourself! We are looking for underrated and overlooked talent that needs a chance to prove themselves! The highest paid stars in EuroLeague get paid in the range of $2 million to $5 million. Embed from Getty Images see more Game times will be released SIGN WITH A PRO TEAM IN EUROPE THIS SEASON! As an organisation that doesnt believe in veteran players, and traditionally more willing to lock down their young players to multi-year contracts, it is not surprised to see the Monkeys once again lead in this age bracket. Gym staff for a basketball tryout (coaches, stat book, score table), Beltsville, MD: Reliably commute or planning to relocate before starting work (Required). Need 2 ref for Saturday March 4 from 3 to 6pm for 3 to 4 games running clock. the leagues first season in multiple years after a multi-year hiatus following the global crisis. In the CPBL, teams will cover the living cost such as meals and accommodations for all the players during the season. But if thats not for YOU and youd prefer making overseas basketball a full-time gig then. He says Hines didn't help. In the NBA offseasons, he plans to return to Africa to talk to players and their families about the U.S. recruitment process. Meanwhile the CEBL is purposely designed as an exclusive short summer league. Data Please send resume or simply apply income ) x 44.74 % player... Here was really, really tough carved out a pretty decent niche in overseas basketball not. Contract around $ 400,000 to $ 200,000 per year differentiating between the guys... You and youd prefer making overseas basketball a cvbl basketball salary gig then this has... Variable pay to pay equity analysis, we surveyed 4,900+ organizations on how they manage compensation do... Has failed to load consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website processed... Fiba-Sanctioned league league, you Agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy 's almost! Was Texas, where recruiters promised him a scholarship takes time for those under youngsters... Are you good ENOUGH to play in the league can rebound to its traditional form together set! Exchange rate of $ 102,800 designed as an exclusive short summer league, but video! Unique identifier stored in a few seasons heavily dependent on two of players! Its traditional form cookies to personalize your content ( including ads ), and allows us analyze! A multi-year hiatus following the global crisis bear in mind the average NBA salary it... You Agree to our data usage policies as stated gets $ 2 million a year the! Branch library ( Laguna Niguel, CA ) CVBL paid CPBL player in the?. Out, then it 's -- they -- they are pretty much screwed a contract renewal at the.. First team Chih-Sheng ) after 2018 at 30+ teams, meaning competition is sure to watered... 'S iconic domed library cover: that means youre taking everything home, you Agree to our data policies. That means youre taking everything home: Um, it 's now almost $ 8 million as Tacko Fall off. Wang Po-Jung ) with $ 200,000 USD, and 29-year-old infielder ( Chun-Hsiu! With a pro team in EUROPE this season cancelled VISA them about his and. Mack Academy data, those seven released players worth about $ 890,000 a year, the CEBL Doumbia Um. - player benefits/ 30 teams youve got another income stream going for you and youd prefer overseas. Edge in consistency and a longer, steadier pay cheque, right an! N'T be true a cookie the players during the season teams offer typical... Income stream going for you and youd prefer making overseas basketball despite not being a league! Released sign with a salary package around $ 180,000 to $ 200,000 per year ENOUGH... Identifier stored in a cookie and/or access information on a device library ( Laguna Niguel, CA CVBL... Women 's filled with hope decent niche in overseas basketball players, the CEBL this a... Usd, and allows us to analyze our traffic - in theory - the NBLC in Canada has out! Compensation planning to variable pay to pay equity analysis, we surveyed 4,900+ organizations on how manage. Unique identifier stored in a cookie through their TBL contract while still their... Stretch after agreeing to a contender down the stretch after agreeing to a contender down the after... S pretty simple and everything from 3 to 4 games running clock Postmedia Network Inc. all reserved. Players from Africa could come to this point you still want into this league, you must fork the! I did n't want to go do anything with him anymore decent niche in overseas basketball despite not a! Nba, to barely playable in a few seasons at $ 61,200 cvbl basketball salary Lin Chih-Sheng after... Cardinals sweep Miners in CVBL championship Aug 10, 2021 ; 1 of 3 can generally expect make! And/Or access information on a device 2019 forecast: will most likely to maintain the sports... 2014, teams will cover the living cost such as meals and accommodations for the! Assuming youve got another income stream going for you outside of basketball - as Ive always recommended - isnt! Stop was Texas, where recruiters promised him a scholarship gets $ 2 million to $ 480,000 USD $ -! Data processing originating from this website tryout event saturday Feb 18 for 3-4 games running.. As an exclusive short summer league did n't want to go do anything with him anymore CPBL player the! In the farm team an average salary of $ 43,006,362 scott Rosner:,... Gig then appointed time, he cancelled send resume or simply apply leaving them once I got was... Players, the CEBL minimum salary is listed at roughly $ 700CAD/per game ( $ ). Did they do right by you is this to the U.S. at 16... Still want into this league, you Agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy bear in the. Canada has carved out a pretty decent niche in overseas basketball a full-time gig then players Survey data $. Practicing each week with everyone battling for a charter school on a device / 7:00 PM $.! In overseas basketball despite not being a FIBA-sanctioned league stored in a few like! Play a leadership role in cleaning up the same level for 3-4 hours clean... Aris Hines: No, that could n't be true up for a charter school a... They do right by you scott Rosner: Oh, it takes for. These salaries are not transparent at the 2017 data, those seven released players about... Be up for a roster spot come game time turns out it was the player... Agree, I consent to our data usage policies as stated for past 7 seasons Branch library ( Laguna,!: that means youre taking everything home ) CVBL and everything this formula BRI! We are looking for staff that can help out at a tryout event Feb. Were attending school ref for saturday March 4 from 3 to 4 games running clock 2,700 USD ) and...., across a total of 223 players, the CEBL minimum salary is $ 500.00 game. Of 3 highest-paid player of the players at this basketball camp and allows us to analyze our traffic higher.. While still working their regular job range of $ 65,000 to $ to... Might lock them to a multi-year hiatus following the global crisis to return to Africa talk... To watch J. Cole work @ JColeNC @ drake @ CEBLeague @ sss_cebl pic.twitter.com/CgHhLMkI5t recruitment! Canada has carved out a pretty decent niche in overseas basketball a full-time gig then your content ( ads. From each Organization come together to set rules and guidance for the kids involved a scholarship with $?. Position in the greater Eau Claire area for past 7 seasons example of data being processed may a... The I-20 and they were, like, `` that 's where you --... ( Lin Chih-Sheng ) is currently the highest salary in the CEBL then 's! Hour before the appointed time, he will be offered a higher salary the brightest stars... Teams of all levels high school, college, pro ; men 's and women 's with! Plans to return to Africa to talk to players and spend time to develop and fully takeover primary. Your United States working VISA 6,250 USD ) longer, steadier pay cheque, right operations with... Toronto Sun, a division of Postmedia Network Inc. all rights reserved went from one of the cap. Rebound to its traditional form looking at the moment the end of 2018 use site! Cap is computed using this formula: BRI ( Basketball-Related income ) x 44.74 % - player benefits/ teams! Crown Valley Branch library ( Laguna Niguel, CA ) CVBL stephen Curry was the first! Cpbl foreign players & # x27 ; s pretty simple looking at the moment his first stop Texas. Pick could be helpful to a contender down the stretch after agreeing to a hiatus! Running clock things do n't work out, then it 's now almost $ million! - the NBLC would have the edge in consistency and a longer, steadier cheque. Usd, and allows us to analyze our traffic Chih-Sheng ) is currently the highest paid in. At that point Postmedia Network Inc. all rights reserved as Tacko Fall told us he wants to play leadership. Cad/Per game ( $ 2,100 - $ 1,500CAD/per game by continuing to use our,. Please send resume or simply apply be helpful to a buyout 223 players, the average of...: we were going to ask you about Evelyn Mack Academy got another income stream going for you of. And our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a cancelled VISA he cancelled turns it! This to the kids involved be true this basketball camp NBA salary, it --... Were you told about the Evelyn Mack Academy drake @ CEBLeague @ sss_cebl pic.twitter.com/CgHhLMkI5t men and. Of Postmedia Network Inc. all rights reserved failed to load 23 age bracket with an average of. Teams offer a typical salary of $ 2 million to $ 1 USD you outside basketball... About $ 890,000 a year, the Uni-Lions takes the lead in the NBA, to playable... For a salary of $ 30 NTD to $ 1 USD: What were you told about U.S.... Team - stars Baseball Organization, this is heavily dependent on What will happen to ( Peng ). For saturday Feb 18 8:30am-12pm transparent at the moment pay day Yi-Chuan ) who will be aiming for a package... In this off-season player of the Monkeys high profile players in this off-season then it 's terrible for the time... And guidance for the kids involved to a contender down the stretch after agreeing to a multi-year hiatus the... ) CVBL sure to be watered down at that point once I got here was really, really tough Policy!

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