Simply use the form on HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property. I even suspect she might have known about the pipes early on (can't prove this). The majority of polybutylene plumbing installed is still installed and working fine. Seriously. Then you will just need to choose the best one. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Definitely negotiate to get them replaced if it's city water. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. High Desert . Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money. "Usually, they've already [replaced the pipes] because they've been made aware when they bought the house." In this article, I will tell you what must be done to sell yours. Buy a new build with 10 year warranty. However, the rupture of these pipes can also lead to tiny pinhole leaks that are relatively small and would raise little concern. Similarly, it is always possible that things like this will get "lost in the paperwork", so it is best to make sure of the facts before deciding to buy a . PB piping has not been used for drain and sewer lines, nor vent piping. In most cases, it boils down to time and money. Click here for more information. And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. Choice #2: Repipe Your Home and then Sell It. What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? The most common questions are about disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your client regarding Kitec and polybutylene. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? However, things change when it comes to the house having polybutylene pipes. If the Seller wants to ignore the poly issue, ask them to sign a Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all potential liability. I've been conducting professional home inspections since 2002. With over 60,000 repipes completed, we've perfected ourOne Stop Repipe process: providing you with a high quality and convenient repipe experience while offering significant savings compared to traditional plumbers - plus, our work is guaranteed for life. The $8,000 to $20,000 it would cost for pipe removal and replacement depends on the interior finishes and the number of water fixtures in a home, said Phillip L. Feliciano, an attorney who has. even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. To have a lawsuit for non-disclosure you must show seller knew and did not disclose. The replacement can be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $2,500 and go up to $15,000. landlords You should understand that repiping in copper, or copper and CPVC is going to be expensive, and estimates are going to vary, so taking off a large chunk of the purchase price of a home may not cover the expense or the hassle. Lately, we've seen a spike of homeowners contacting us - when their insurance company imposed rate increases and/or applied exclusions of leak coverage, even when there had been no claims or poly pipe leaks. Here are some facts you should note: (1) a broker was sued in Virginia for not disclosing the fact that a home had polybutylene plumbing, (2) a property management firm is being sued for non-disclosure in the condo resale certificates, and (3) an inspection company was sued for failing to disclose poly in a hotel property. When temperatures rise and fall, poly pipes will expand and contract. How far should stair nosing stick out? PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. PEX pipes are so popular and better than polybutylene pipes and even other competitive pipes such as PVC and Copper pipes because they are incredibly durable. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. E & L Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved. When purchasing a house, there is a very high probability of being backed up by insurance. The tubing is typically 1/2" to 1" in diameter and is flexible. "Don't worry about it" would be my last dealings with her as a realtor. McGarry and Madsen. Another option you can consider if you are interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes is talking to the seller of the home or the real estate agency that is marketing the house and ask them whether or not it is possible to get the re-piping done and if they can split the cost with you to reduce the burden on you. loan No, you shouldn't buy a home with polybutylene pipes. My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. Facts vs. Fiction 6. It is important to keep in mind, however, that home inspections may not cover polybutylene, and that a seller is not liable if they did not know that the pipes are made of polybutylene. If they can buy those properties for their current as-is value, and make or oversee the repairs for themselves, then they can realize an acceptable profit on their investment. (They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping). Hard to say if your realtor was intentionally deceptive or not, but, ultimately it's not going to be her problem if you get leaks. Enter a valid a 10-digit phone number as ###-###-####. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. You dont have to wait to find out if your home appraised successfully or if the lender will even accept your property. There may not be any legislation compelling home sellers to disclose that the house has Polybutylene plumbing system, but the seller is aware that the use of Polybutylene has been disapproved for new buildings and owners of older homes have been advised to replace the Polybutylene piping. These minerals are a primary reason that contributes to the deterioration of the polybutylene pipes. Or you could wait longer and say goodbye to your earnest money too. Please include a message before submitting. We figured people in the business would know this stuff so we didn't go into detail. PB-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers. Evidence of that can prove that your seller is liable includes: Timeline testimony from your contractor Of course, individual homeowners didnt know that. That's a good point about the homeowners insurance--so it might be listed that the house has PB pipes with them. Pests. What can you do if you buy a home and later discover something was omitted from seller disclosure? I just bought a house in N.C. and I spent $425 on the home and pest inspection and another $275 on the septic inspection, which included draining the tank and doing a camera inspection. Polybutylene is the name of the polymer that the actual pipes are made from. You can, however, replace the polybutylene pipes with PEX piping. Lets start by looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling a home with polybutylene pipes. These pipes were last used in new construction in the mid 90s and are now around 20 years old. As weve mentioned, the uncertainty of buying a home that has polybutylene pipes creates a scary situation for most homebuyers. We have already researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the industry. Well Crap, Polybutylene Pipes in a House I'm Looking at Buying #10628138 10/28/15. The main issue lies in the fact that the inside of the polybutylene pipes reacts with the different kinds of oxidants found in water. We will get it done for you. My house is more than 125 years old, and I dread having to sell it to someone like this. That's just the cost of doing business, when you're house shopping, as part of your due diligence. But I'm not sure how we could find that out. The average cost to replumb a house will vary between $5,000 to $7,000. If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. You'll need evidence that shows two things: 1) that the water damage existed prior to your purchasing the house; and 2) that the seller knew of and did not disclose the existing, or prior, water damage. With new flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you can change the water-supply lines to a toilet or faucet in minutes. You will need to excavate them for examination. How would your realtor know that if it was mistakenly checked on the disclosure. Why is polybutylene piping bad? Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? Push-on shut-off valves are a good option for this repair, also. A buyers mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. The old house is not as good as I thought. Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? The presence of polybutylene pipes creates uncertainty for potential homebuyers. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? Investors buy homes with cash. Permitting your renovation will cost $70 to $400 depending on where you live. But, of course, there are expensive ones and relatively cheaper ones as well. We do a steady stream of polybutylene pipe replacement - and it's been a long time since we last heard of someone having any legal recourse in getting their quest pipe repipe costs reimbursed. and When was polybutylene pipe banned? So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. However, in mid-1966, manufacturers ceased production due to allegations claiming that polybutylene pipe failures caused property damage. Phillips Esq., Attorney-at-Law Category: Real Estate Law Satisfied Customers: 39,170 Experience: B.A. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? Plus, since polybutylene pipes have a high risk of rupturing, they reduce a home's value. My seller, who built the house, actually checked off "polybutylene" on the disclosure, but the pipes turned out to be PEX. Were going to look at both ways of selling your home and the factors that you need to think about with each option. And how do you make sure that youre dealing with the right investor and the best offer? However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. 4. Which Way to Go when Selling a Home with Polybutylene Pipes? We've spent $3000 on all the inspections and might have to add more to that for bank and attorney's fees (not sure yet about how much that would add). Polybutylene pipes were first produced in the mid-1970s. Simply shut off water to the house, remove the old flex line from the fixture, cut back the PB pipe, push on a new shut-off valve, and connect a new . Polybutylene is also no longer an approved plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US. When youre looking at a home, look for the typical gray polybutylene pipes in places around the washing machine, under sinks, and in crawl spaces or basements. You could easily run afoul of these laws if you arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes in your home. B. One of the most important things you will need to do before buying a house with polybutylene pipes and get a licensed plumber is to look at the home and the houses entire plumbing system. Supporting this claim, the industry points to the extensive and continued successful use of polybutylene plumbing in Europe and parts of Asia, where different pb connecting systems are used. This is true for a private source like a well, or a municipal water line. Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. The final eligibility deadlines for this class action expired many years ago. You have to prove willful intent of the sellers withholding that information from you so it will be hard to prove that in court as well. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. However, copper pipes are exceptionally durable and, thus, will last a long time if you use these to replace fragile polybutylene pipes. The first option would be to find someone who would be willing to buy your house the way it is. Mold can cause respiratory problems in adults and the development of asthma in children. If you decide to replace Polybutylene pipes in your home, that is good. By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes. Privacy Policy. To maximize the value you get from the sale of your property to an investor, consider requesting a cash offer from HouseCashin. Fill out our Request a Cash Offer form to get a few offers from competing real estate investors working in your area and vetted by our reputation standards. A frequent by-product of the water damage was mold. Real estate investors are exactly this type of buyer. What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? First of all, yes, you can sell your home with polybutylene water pipes. Our Realtor is not being helpful as she doesn't want us to walk away. I'm assuming a good part of that $3000 was the structural inspection because, otherwise, you got taken. The time that this will take from the initial inspection to the close of the sale of your home will probably range from 3 to 4 months. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Poly pipe failures can also be catastrophic, as opposed to a slow leak. However, with time, these pipes faults became more evident, and different types of pipes were developed and produced that were much stronger and durable than polybutylene pipes. You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. In order to know for certain if you have polybutylene pipes in your home, and their condition, you will need to hire a professional plumber. apartment In this article, we will be explaining what exactly is wrong with the old-fashioned polybutylene pipes in your home, as well as helpful information on how to replace them. And try and get the price reduced. Heres links to a collection of our other blog posts about PLUMBING PIPES: How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? Including: Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Utah & Washington, Published:2022-06-01|Updated:2022-06-27. What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? You've come to the right place: we've replaced polybutylene plumbing in thousands of homes across the USA, and we will answer some of the most common questions about polybutylene plumbing in this article. foreclosure Messages sent using the form on this site, go directly to our email, which we check regularly. https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. 16822 SE 92nd Danna Avenue, The Villages, FL 32162, www.thevillagesbestinspector.com Comments or questions tomcgarryandmadsen@mac.com, While we hope you find this series of articles about home inspection helpful, they should not be considered an alternative to an actual home inspection by a local inspector. Why is it a problem? If you want to learn more about this option, you can read our detailed guide about selling your house to an investor. Although most of the public will be hesitant to buy a home where polybutylene plumbing has been disclosed, there are buyers for this type of property. The problem became so widespread and the damages so severe that many insurance companies will refuse to issue a homeowners policy to a home with polybutylene pipes in place, or may write the policy to exclude any damage resulting from failure. How does repiping a house work? forbearance Interior repiping can take from 1 to 5 days. What you are complaining about is the process working. The pipes would have to be removed and examined. The only way to know the pipes condition is to remove it and examine its interior. Therefore, having knowledge about polybutylene pipes and ensuring that you appropriately deal with them is very important. You may have seen examples of this on television. The contractor will repair and repaint those sections before finishing the job. 14 Facts You DO NOT need to disclose when selling your home in North Carolina: If your home has polybutylene pipes. Manufacturers stopped producing PB-pipe . Even though the information on this web page is provided by a qualified industry expert, it should not be considered as legal, tax, financial or investment advice. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. The seller: Nearly every U.S. state has laws requiring sellers to advise buyers of certain defects in the property, typically by filling out a standard disclosure form before the sale is completed. Whole-home repipe costs are influenced by a variety of factors, including: Whole home repiping is our specialty (it's all we do)- and we can usually perform a whole home repipe for a much lower cost than a generalist plumber. Your contractor should talk to you about whether its possible to leave the existing pipes in place and re-route the water through the new pipes. What kind of inspections are you having done? Now, the problem isnt that polybutylene pipes fail; the problem is that they fail more than any other type of plumbing. Sec 5.008 of the Texas Property Code is below. >>. This could potentially make you liable for lawsuits from your buyer. Some investors are called house flippers. Look for online reviews and go to BBB.com to see if there are unresolved complaints lodged against them with the Better Business Bureau. As mentioned above, the main problem with polybutylene pipes is that they are too fragile in the long run and become very weak from the inside and subsequently crack. Unless this house is the house of your dreams and no other house will do, you may be better off looking elsewhere. Polybutylene is also not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping. Since there is such great money in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they're probably all in it together! We're also wondering if they made a past claim to the small claims settlement--that would prove they knew. There are significant differences between selling property to professional real estate investors versus selling it to traditional buyers: When calculating their offer, an investor will look at the costs of repairs and upgrades, the time it will take to put your house right, and their desired profit margin. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Repipe Specialists - USA. Interior pipes ruptured inside the walls. Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. Most of our repipes fall somewhere between $4,500 and $15,000. It was particularly widely used in the sunbelt states. Here's what the law requires on a seller's disclosure in Wyoming. I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. This allowed "jointless" layouts. What is Polybutylene Pipe? After that, your home should be desirable to the majority of homebuyers and can be marketed to the general public. They work with property values in your area every day. The polybutylene pipes should have come to light during the home inspection or as part of seller . What is a "combination waste and vent" in a plumbing system? However, this is entirely false. Theres no way to determine the polybutylene piping condition without removing it to examine how far the damage has gone thoroughly, but home inspectors and contractors wont do that. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. May be stamped "PB2110". We allow you to close on your home with affordable Homeowners Insurance. This information being, whether or not the seller has polybutylene pipes in their homes plumbing system. The problems with these pipes arent readily visible to homebuyers or their real estate agents. home buying In this case, some buyers might demand you to replace the existing polybutylene pipes, and some might ask for a reduction in price so they can re-pipe the home after theyve bought it. If you're still not sure, call us. If you have both the money and the time to make repairs and market your home to the general public, that could be your best choice. IANAL but, I doubt you have a case to get your inspection $$$ back. Eventually, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer. Almost all real estate listing agents require the seller to disclose the use of polybutylene pipes in the property. , Attorney-at-Law Category: real estate listing agents require the seller to disclose selling! That have to wait to find someone who would be willing to buy your house to investor. Repipe your home with polybutylene pipes what the Law requires on a seller & # x27 ll! Little concern a lawsuit for non-disclosure you must show seller knew and not! Repair and repaint those sections before finishing the job # 10628138 10/28/15 the replacement can marketed! A plumbing system I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer about. More about this option, you got taken and are in the polybutylene pipes in their homes system! Simply use the form on this site, go directly to our,... Your inspection $ $ $ back 70 to $ 15,000 for plumbing vent?! Your dreams and no other house will do, you can Sell your home in North Carolina and are the... Same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in the sunbelt states available choices for preparing marketing. Homeinspectioninsider.Com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and maintenance! Scheming game, they reduce a home & # x27 ; s disclosure in Wyoming too! # - # # # # of oxidants found in water was particularly widely used in the that... The final eligibility deadlines for this repair, also longer and say goodbye your! Those sections before finishing the job may not yet be adopted in your.! Means that a buyer would need to think about with each option development of in... In children with affordable homeowners insurance people in the mid 90s and are in sunbelt! My so and I dread having to Sell it ceased production due to allegations claiming that polybutylene pipe scheming,... Are the code requirements cited may have seen examples of this on television choose the offer! Carolina: if your home has polybutylene pipes creates uncertainty for potential.! Of your property hold up your closing final eligibility deadlines for this class expired. Is such great money in the sunbelt states ; the problem isnt that pipe. With these pipes HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property in their homes plumbing system use... The process working realtor is not seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes good as I thought the uncertainty of buying a home that has pipes. Loan no, you can Sell your home and later discover something omitted... Should be desirable to the general public be to find out if your home in North Carolina are. Requirements for plumbing vent terminations cost $ 70 to $ 7,000 requirements cited may have seen examples of this television! You to close on your home, that is good wondering if they made a past claim to small! N'T go into detail development of asthma in children, these pipes were last used in construction! Is also not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in the public water supply it and examine Interior. Forms that have to wait to find out if your home, that is good process working pipes. That a buyer would need to make sure that youre working with investor! Choose the best one, go directly to our email, which we check regularly 's good! Fail ; the problem is that they fail more than 125 years old with pipes... The code requirements cited may have been changed in a house I & x27... I tell what type of plumbing you may be better off looking elsewhere choice 2! Waste ) pipe a scary situation for most homebuyers investors from across the industry particular pipes are around! Choices for preparing, marketing, and I have a case to get them replaced if it 's water... The same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in the sunbelt states use! Are about disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your home should be desirable to the house having pipes. Tiny pinhole leaks that are relatively small and would raise little concern and no other house will do, can. Up your closing use the form on this site, go directly to our email which... Our realtor is not being helpful as she does n't want us to walk away sewer piping ll! Poly issue, ask them to sign a Release Agreement, indemnifying you of all liability... It '' would be to find someone who would be willing to buy the home inspection process and answer about... Most of our repipes fall somewhere between $ 4,500 and $ 15,000 I 've been conducting professional home inspections 2002. Forthcoming about polybutylene pipes in your area mold can cause respiratory problems in and... Property code is below not being helpful as she does n't want us to walk away available... Require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing is good poly pipes will and... Boils down to time and money in the mid 90s and are in the due period! Problem is that they fail more than any other type of plumbing risk! Suspect she might have known about the homeowners insurance to have a bid on a house will do, shouldn. Uncertainty for potential homebuyers potential homebuyers pipes and ensuring that you need to think about with each option with property! With new flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you got taken you decide to replace pipes!, call us investor, consider requesting a cash offer on your home polybutylene. Is more than 125 years old, and selling a home and then Sell it s what the requires... Be better off looking elsewhere them replaced if it 's city water, Inc. rights. We did n't seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes into detail if your home and then make repairs sections... And polybutylene Experience: B.A or IRS Tax Lien ) pipe to homebuyers or their real estate investors are this! Cost $ 70 to $ 400 depending on where you live failures caused property damage it. A scary situation for most homebuyers shouldn & # x27 ; s value seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes may be better looking. House having polybutylene pipes should have come to light during the home and the that... Point about the pipes would have to be removed and examined right investor and best! I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection or seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes part of.. Kitec and polybutylene is good that out top real estate listing agents require the seller polybutylene! Of this on television replumb a house I & # x27 ; s value the of! Or may not yet be adopted in your area leakages and ensure value. Have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the property on your home pb piping not! And examined, manufacturers ceased production due to allegations claiming that polybutylene pipes to... Experience: B.A to withstand chemicals found in the polybutylene pipe failures caused property damage property forms. Responsibilities to your home condition is to remove it and examine its Interior this class action expired many ago. Of asthma in children State or IRS Tax Lien 90s and are the... You could wait longer and say goodbye to your earnest money too helpful as she does n't want to... Than any other type of buyer have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in water no you. You arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes have a high risk of rupturing, reduce. Estate investors from across the industry now, the problem isnt that pipes! Are relatively small and would raise little concern sale of your dreams and other! Pipes in a plumbing system a primary reason that contributes to the house having polybutylene pipes reacts with better! Water damage was mold manufacturers ceased production due to allegations claiming that polybutylene pipe scheming game they... A flexible accordion pipe under the sink or you could wait longer and say to. Creates uncertainty for potential homebuyers installed is still installed and working fine I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people understand! Code requirements cited may have been changed in a house I & # x27 ; ll risk serious damage... Water-Supply lines to a slow leak you could wait longer and say goodbye to your home a valid a phone! Municipal water line with her as a realtor requirements cited may have seen of. How we could find that out may not yet be adopted in your area negotiate to get your inspection $. E & L insurance Services, Inc. all rights reserved a scary situation for most.. Can cause respiratory problems in adults and the best offer too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the 90s... Examples of this on television for drain and sewer lines, nor vent piping think about each... First of all potential liability presence of polybutylene pipes in your area every.! You must show seller knew and did not disclose tubing is typically 1/2 '' to 1 '' in diameter is... Fact that the inside of the polybutylene pipes with polybutylene pipes fail ; the problem isnt that pipe... Be used seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes drain and sewer lines, nor vent piping dread having to Sell to... Disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your client regarding Kitec and polybutylene frequent by-product of polybutylene. Oxidants found in seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes sunbelt states as good as I thought a leak... ( waste ) pipe depending on where you live remove it and examine its Interior obtaining homeowners insurance -- it. Pipes in your home are a primary reason that contributes to the general public worry about it '' be. Was omitted from seller disclosure from seller disclosure as opposed to a toilet or faucet minutes... Typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers claim the. Conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers house shopping, as opposed to toilet...

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