So grateful for those who did and Scot McKnight who came out with a just a powerful, I remember when his blog hit and he said, Every elder has to resign. And within what, wasnt it a week, all of them resigned. Powerful ministry at some points. To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." Im good friends with Vonda Dyer, who worked at Willow and was one of the women who bravely came forward with her story about her interactions with Bill Hybels. The thief knows how to how to get through that lock, right? Because it was lawyers advice, you know, and its like, where does the word of God play into our decision making? You have to have unity among your vocational staff at the church about, you know, key issues like how do we treat other people? He makes sure the good things stay in the church and the bad things go out. That was my upbringing. https://www.billionbibles.com/voice-of-the-martyrs.html. Many organizations that have a board of directors consisting of yes men or yes women who are inclined to go along with the board chairman and/or are friends with them. Talk to me about how you saw this playing out at Willow Creek. They have to be theyre incredibly convincing. Theyre involved in their own issue right now. He currently leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling the Truth which he shares with his parents Stuart and Jill Briscoe. Guest Bios Show Transcript Spiritual abuse has become an increasingly hot topic, as more and more stories of bully pastors and hyper-controlling, Guest Bios Show Transcript After years spent in an abusive church, how do you heal? And in the few times Ive spoken with him, I found his insights to be profound. This person or these people were hurt as a result, you have a pride problem. God uses the faithful and generous support of people like you to continue to change lives through the ministry of Telling the Truth. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. So Scot, its like the scene in The Avengers when Iron Man just kind of drops out of the sky. But now my faith in the whole institution is shattered. Is that right? Because they, I mean, they had a massive PR machine they had, they hired Mark DeMoss, his firm to come in and try to resolve things from a PR standpoint. Thats one of the things that attracted me to it is that he would admit something that he had failed, like, I remember one Wednesday night at a midweek service, and he got up and he said how that day he had seen somebody who was, you know, he could tell that they were upset and in need, and he just walked right by the person and totally blew them off. Yeah, were all saints who sometimes sin. Friends are important! Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. Later Telling the Truth began airing in several countries in southeast Asia and across 10 countries in southern Africa. We have an open listing for a lead teaching pastor in a what I believe is a healthy church environment. Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. Hybels at one point had a major conflict with a woman who was serving on the elder board, who was trying to hold him accountable and essentially used a reconciliation process involving some other big names in evangelicalism to essentially run her off, put her under an NDA. And I think it wasnt a problem, Mitch, because everybody always agreed with whatever the senior pastor wanted. Pete served as the senior pastor at Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Dallas, Texas for nearly 30 years, and he now ministers to pastors and organizational executives through personalized, professional coaching. I think the load needs to be shared. Now youre a lawyer. Briscoe stepped down as senior pastor at the end of 2000 but remained involved in the church and active in overseas missions. That night we had a guest speaker come in for a special presentation. I had no idea what to expect as this lone man stood on the stage. Its How do we protect the entity and the entity as expressed through the person of Bill Hybels? Once you make that decision that youre willing to protect the entity or the person in charge of the entity to the detriment of members of the body or members of the staff, youve made some poor choices that are going to have consequences. The fact that, I dont know. Thank you so much. As I look back on my own four years on staff, Im thankful for the teaching and leadership that Pete Briscoe has brought to Bent Tree, and I know that so many of us have been impacted by his attention to the Lord and quick obedience to however God leads him. This is just the way things are in Corinth. He represented two women involved in the sex abuse scandal involving Bill Hybels. Hes also a strong believer and advocate for abuse victims. But other than that, you know, there just werent a lot of people in the larger church speaking and there had to have been a lot of church leaders who knew about what was going on and knew that there were problems with Bill Hybels. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. With that purpose in mind, they launched theTelling the Truth ministry. I appreciate you so much and look forward to visiting with you again soon. And I still havent been able to get her to visit with me. They know there would be swift and sure discipline, if not firing, even with one mistakedepending on the severity of the misbehavior. Well, and that is one aspect of the story that I wanted to explore together because I know that what happened at Willow from my understanding of speaking with Vonda and several victims is that it was far worse, the abuse there and far more pervasive than most people know, and thats one of the frustrations I know of a lot of the victims is that Willow hasnt publicly acknowledged that or publicly said how bad it was. Its M-I-L-G-R-A-M the Milgram experiment, but basically American researchers were trying to figure out after World War II, why so many in German society were willing to go along with the Nazis or go along with their leadership, do incalculably horrible things to people. Amen. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. There was another documented case where he had oral sex with his assistant back in the 90s at WC. Please contact us or click here to learn more about how to enable JavaScript on your browser. The ministry began in 1971 while Stuart served as senior pastor of Elmbrook Church in Brookfield, Wisconsin, which grew into the largest evangelical church in the state. They were almost sacred and benevolent and unable to do wrong. There was a period of time, Ill call, The Great Loneliness after that Chicago Tribune article came out, where they were radioactive. These are people that are in your country club. I think ultimately, we are still kind of under the inertia of a culture that was fomented by Pete Briscoe, which was a culture of goodness, a culture of grace and its still carrying forward under that momentum. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. And I realized that as we were discussing this, that there might be some people who have heard about what happened at Willow Creek, but somewhat superficially, through the headlines and dont really know beneath the surface. I encourage leaders to research their selection criteria carefully before they recruit for their next vacancies. And it turns out there were a lot more women who had been affected by Bill Hybels. Lawyer for Bill Hybels Victims Shares Inside Story. WebPete Briscoe answers that question by pointing us to Paul as the perfect example of one who speaks with tender boldness. Just what I call a deformed leadership culture at the church where certain things became acceptable that shouldnt. I think these women would still like to know the answer to that. But before we begin, I just want to take a minute to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. And what lessons can we learn from Willow Creeks mistakes? You know, I believe in spiritual strongholds and things like that. And I think you hit the nail on the head. So when you have someone who is trusted, whos supposed to be an expert, you know, like a pastor, like a longtime senior pastor whos supposed to be a theological expert, and someone whos in authority like a senior pastor, people are willing to do things to satisfy that person that they would not otherwise do, even if those things seem harmful to another person. In fact, back in the late 80s, early 90s, we went to Willow Creek and we had a wonderful experience. It was stunning to me. 1 talking about this. So thanks again. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. I hope you have a great day and God bless. Im so glad that theyre godly men like you serving. I mean, you dont need to be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, because it is gonna manifest itself in bad ways. It is. We see this is the third article this month youve found worth reading. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. You formed a nonprofit corporation. Briscoe He has been married to Jill for more than 59 years and has three children and 13 grandchildren. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. If you go back through Willow Creeks archives, you can see all the, you know, the authors of books who came in and were platformed at Willow Creek. WebHi friend, I'm Pete Briscoe. Its good to be visiting with you again. And the Nancy Ortberg situation, a hug that lasted too long. And I can only imagine what the economic forces are behind the scenes for that, but it really disappoints me, that that hasnt happened. I dont think that theres anything at a mega church that innoculates it from being good. Very few. Literally thousands of people have come to know Jesus under Bill Hybels teaching and yet, he was morally bankrupt at the same time. So Mitch, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. And we need to start on the work of reconciliation and repentance now. And you have two or three board members who go, I dont think so, they did nothing. Like so many of you, I love Pete. But I guess this is the question so many are asking is, Can anybody be in those kind of jobs with the kind of responsibility that is put on one human, one person to lead thousands of people? And so many looking to him for vision for leadership for everything. And that set the course for some of these more severe things to continue happening, and then to even get more and more severe. What I need most is what I dont have. The Elder Board has accepted Petes decision, and his resignation is effective March 31, 2019. But as you say its Gods grace that despite all that hes used these men to bless many, despite everything. This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. But so far, I havent seen that. Basically, theyre a rubber stamp., Julie, I have a different take on what happened at WCC. Yeah, thats right. WebBriscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. I did live it. I appreciate your taking time again away from your vacation to spend time with us. And presented them with the information, he essentially tossed it to the side and said, So what?, No consequences. But its an analog. Well Mitch, one of the things Ive never discussed is that we used to attend Willow Creek. I think, as believers, we should be standing for truth, we should not look the other way. You know, Hybels daughter had her own book on Oprahs book club. And some of it also involved a culture that was willing to cover for wrongdoing. James MacDonald was friends with Ed Stetzer. Welcome to the Roys report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. Yes, I would view it far differently today. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. John and Nancy Ortberg had been at Willow Creek as pastors. There was another case that also occurred where he committed oral sex with his assistant. I thought that emails could always be recovered, even after being erased, by a good IT person. Whats our theology? I would probably have been among those who defended Bill saying, He couldnt have done these things; Hes too strong of a Christian leader. I see this culture as similar to the Corinthian church with the man who was involved with his fathers wife. And Harvest was the same thing. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Today, Telling the Truthis heard anytime and anywhere, thanks to international radio programming, the internet, and our mobile app. Hes just an affectionate kind of guy. And they were no friends of ours during the Harvest investigation either. So I was really struggling with my faith. Pete has offered to Yeah, I think youre gonna be waiting a while. He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is WebSince that time he has ministered on every continent, written more than 40 books, pastored a church for 30 years, and founded a media ministry called Telling the Truth which now broadcasts daily worldwide. Nobody has said they had intercourse with Bill. In our church, we have a no tolerance policy. You feel that they have to have more of a governance more of a hands on role than a lot of them do. Theyve got a little bit of the guide part. I The Roys Report seeks to foster thoughtful and respectful dialogue. How do you get people to come to church when there are more authentic people in the bars? Im Julie Roys. And unless theyre pollinated by hand, on the one day that the bloom opens, they wont make anything. I want to thank Pete too for advocating for women participating fully in leadership and for Libby modeling what it means to be a true helper (ezer kenegdo). Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. Why did so many look the other way for so long? And that that was something that taught you an awful lot about how elder board should deal with sexual impropriety or sexual abuse within their own walls. WebIt is with heavy hearts that the Elders of Bent Tree announce that Pete Briscoe has submitted his resignation as Senior Pastor. However, there should be a bubble level of character in Christ that we return to. Yeah, my understanding of that of the history has come from interviewing witnesses, talking to people who have served in those roles and hearing their stories at Willow. Like so many of you, I love Pete. Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 "of natural causes unexpectedly" according to a tweet from his son, Pete Briscoe. I came out of Wheaton College, as I know a lot of kids do when youre in a Christian environment and maybe see some disillusioning things and I just, it was really a hard spiritual time for me. And I remember you saying once that you had gotten a manual, I think it was from the ECFA, and boy, we could talk about them. Thats what he was. Yeah, without using any names. And thats not what this is about. Churches sometimes need advocates outside their system. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. Senior pastors dont need advocates. But theres something wrong in the whole business of Church. Bent Tree is a multi site mega church in the Dallas Fort Worth area thats had its own share of crises over the past several years. Fellowship, Church family, Community. It was a huge fixture in evangelicalism. That is not a matter of policy. That is a very fair question. WebSince that time he has ministered on every continent, written more than 40 books, pastored a church for 30 years, and founded a media ministry called Telling the Truth which now broadcasts daily worldwide. Im still waiting for the apology for the public apology for giving. And gratitude is where we must go in this time, as Kurt Baxter reminded us on Sunday. I cant do this authentically anymore. And as hard as the last year and a half has been, I applaud him for that. For the next 90 minutes, Pete Briscoe enraptured us with his presentation of The Bema.. And if you are not willing to as an organism, or as an organization say, We messed up. So glad to see you feature Mitch Little. Glad that Jesus is still our anchor! And he offers keen insights that are desperately needed as many churches today struggle to be healthy and to avoid the mistakes other megachurches have made. What Ive told people is, If you are not ready to blow yourself or the organization up in five seconds flat, you need to find a different hobby.. Like if you go back and you actually read his books line-on-line, there are some things in there in those books where you go, For a pastor, that should be unacceptable. But he was attenuating his church culture and culture at large to him in his behavior. As a lawyer whos represented some of Bill Hybels victims, Mitch Little has seen a side of Willow Creek that few others have. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. I mean, I cant tell you how many stories I heard just like the one that you told the people who said, Well, I was at a conference with Bill Hybels, and he was awful to me. It should be something that he learned from, right? Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. Volunteers monitored the process in real time, turning over cassettes at the appropriate time to record on the second side. A man who "dedicated his life to sharing Gods Word with the world" has died at the age of 91. And that needs to be an elder in the church really any size, you need to say, Look, I see what youre doing this is wrong. And when the person makes excuses or says, You know, this is a misunderstanding, I didnt mean to, you know, message that kid inappropriately online, or I didnt mean to Invite them to go do something by ourselves out of, you know, trying to do something bad. He currently leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling the Truth which he shares with his parents Stuart and Jill Briscoe. I think thats dangerous. And its so important, I think, for any of us who are doing any kind of ministry at all, if we get our identity wrapped up in what were doing, then what were doing is no longer ministry, its no longer service to the Lord. Yeah, right. But it really had the tone has to be set by leadership for a culture of goodness. There are therapy notes to support her story. This was an excellent interview and elders need to read this interview. If anything has a whiff of impropriety, we would jump on it immediately. I think it took courage. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? 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